Angela Flournoy, critically acclaimed writer of The Turner House, joined The Center For Fiction to observe the highly anticipated merchandise of her caller novel, The Wilderness.
The Wilderness follows 5 Black women successful their twenties—Desiree, Danielle, January, Monique, and Nakia—as they wrestle with profound questions reverberating done their lives: How bash we reconcile the hunt for intent and absorption with the shifting stakes of maturity? How should relationship beryllium prioritized successful the look of these transformations? Set against the backdrops of New York and Los Angeles from the precocious 2000s done the 2020s, the caller navigates the uncertain metamorphosis of modern adulthood.
Flournoy was joined successful speech by Brit Bennett, writer of the New York Times bestselling caller The Vanishing Half, and Raven Leilani, writer of The Center for Fiction First Novel Prize-winning publication Luster. Don’t miss this intimate exploration of modern transportation and coming of age.
From the conversation:
Angela Flournoy: Money is real. And I deliberation that a batch of radical speech astir however fabrication and novels historically are expected to beryllium for the mediate class. And I’m not expected to bash this and they’re not expected to bash that. That mightiness beryllium historically, similar a period ago, who the people assemblage was for these books, but I work the aforesaid books and I did not travel from that.
Plenty of america are broke. But we besides deliberation astir a batch of different things. We conscionable don’t privation to prime up the cheque astatine the extremity of the meal.
And it ne'er occurred to maine that successful my fiction, I was expected to not speech astir wealth oregon conversely, marque money—not having money—the sole diagnostic of a person, due to the fact that there’s that. Like that’s ever been successful fiction—it’s similar a idiosyncratic tin beryllium broke, but that’s got to beryllium the lone happening they ever deliberation about.
They can’t ever person immoderate different concerns due to the fact that they gotta find money. And I consciousness similar that’s not—plenty of america are broke. But we besides deliberation astir a batch of different things. We conscionable don’t privation to prime up the cheque astatine the extremity of the meal. So I wanted to marque that thing that felt present.
But besides 1 of the things erstwhile I was reasoning astir however my friendships are going to evolve, I besides was reasoning astir individually, this procreation of radical for whom the future—the aboriginal that our parents successful their 30s and 40s had—is not guaranteed astatine all. Right. How is that idiosyncratic conscionable surviving with precarity of a antithetic kind?
What does that bash to your brain? And what besides does it bash to your interactions with different people? And truthful determination are friends who are hustling, pivoting to influencing successful an effort to get money, to effort to fig retired however to capitalize connected this moment. And past you person radical who grew up with wealth but consciousness due to the fact that of that, that they request to person this bigger intent for themselves, to springiness backmost oregon to person it each mean something.
And past you person a quality who inherited wealth due to the fact that of a bid of tragedies, who conscionable doesn’t similar to deliberation astir it. And past you person idiosyncratic who has a bully antheral with money, but it’s not enough. I thought that that was a bully benignant of diverseness of relationships with money, and immoderate of it changes passim the book.
Brit Bennett: Right. I cognize we person to leap to Q&A, but fto maine conscionable inquire you 1 last question. So delight deliberation astir your questions. I privation to inquire you astir penning astir the internet. And I’m asking astir this selfishly, due to the fact that we benignant of met connected the internet. We met connected Twitter, truthful we were similar Twitter mutuals.
And past erstwhile you came, you were connected your publication circuit for Turner House, and it was the archetypal clip we met successful person. So you are the 1 of the champion things that ever came from maine being connected Twitter. I’m nary longer there, but I’m truthful grateful that I met you. I’m funny if you conscionable speech astir penning astir the internet. Again, reasoning astir the improvement of societal media, during the duration erstwhile you were penning this book, I ideate that changed.
And yeah, you person this quality successful the publication who benignant of aspires to net fame. So could you speech astir that a small bit, the acquisition of penning astir the internet?
AF: So, there’s a quality named Monique who has had this 1 infinitesimal that she got a small spot of virality disconnected of. She was a trained librarian, but she decides, well, possibly I tin get immoderate much oregon thing and possibly I tin marque immoderate wealth doing this.
The happening astir penning astir the net is that it is highly cringe. So the hardest parts to constitute successful this caller were each azygous small—she has the smallest section—every azygous 1 of those Monique sections were precise difficult, due to the fact that the happening that I wanted to research is the mode that, if you are successful the concern of publically aforesaid narrativizing each the time, you tin really not cognize yourself that well.
And truthful I tried to research that. And I besides wanted to amusement what it’s similar erstwhile you’ve been doing it a agelong time. So she’s got similar a blog spot benignant of happening successful the beginning, and past it’s mostly conscionable posting. But past by the extremity she’s got a podcast. She’s pivoted done the assorted mediums wrong societal media and conscionable penning connected the internet.
But I wanted to amusement the mode that—have immoderate of you ever met a precise online person, and past astatine slightest the archetypal hang, you’re like, ugh she’s 1 of those online people. Like she’s weird successful person, right? Sometimes I’ve learned that successful consequent hangs, they’ll beryllium little weird, but sometimes they won’t.
The happening that I wanted to research is the mode that, if you are successful the concern of publically aforesaid narrativizing each the time, you tin really not cognize yourself that well.
But it’s absorbing because, erstwhile we were connected Facebook a cardinal years agone and they were called updates, sometimes you were conscionable like, “I conscionable got coffee,” right? You didn’t cognize what you were expected to beryllium putting. But present everyone is self-publishing. Everyone is aforesaid narrativizing.
I was talking to idiosyncratic the different day, a dada astatine a playdate, and helium was like, yea I person friends of excavation who don’t adjacent person to person a batch of followers, and they’ll accidental things like, ”if you don’t similar my content, then—” like, bash you person content? Or are you conscionable keeping successful interaction with your friends?
But the lines person gotten blurred. And it feels similar a batch of radical who possibly conscionable person similar 500 followers. Should they get a infinitesimal similar Monique did wherever they get virality, they would beryllium leaning into it due to the fact that 1 each right, frankly, it’s a viable vocation way successful 2025, but two, due to the fact that it ever seems similar that is the extremity end of, what other are you sharing each of this for?
And truthful I wanted to deliberation astir that, but I besides wanted it to consciousness similar arsenic a scholar you are allowed to cringe erstwhile you are speechmaking Monique sections. You’re expected to. I cringed erstwhile I was writing, but it was an workout successful one, again, I’m funny in, however are radical surviving close now?
And we spot implicit 20 years, however is she surviving connected the internet? In the beginning, you tin archer she doesn’t deliberation anybody’s speechmaking it conscionable by the mode of posture. But by the end, the posture is different. You know, she’s self-referring a lot. She’s possibly trying to coin immoderate term. She’s got similar a Patreon, right?
Again, it’s a viable mode to marque a surviving successful 2025. So I’m not criticizing anybody who has each of those things, but I wanted to deliberation about, what does that mean to your “IRL” relationships? And she does person arguments astir who’s “IRL” with the radical who’d known her earlier that.
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Angela Flournoy‘s bestselling caller novel, The Wilderness, was released by Mariner Books successful autumn 2025. The caller was long-listed for the National Book Award and a finalist for the Kirkus Prize. Angela Flournoy is the writer of The Turner House, which was a finalist for the National Book Award, a finalist for The Center for Fiction First Novel Prize, a Barnes & Noble Discover Great New Writers selection, an Indie Next Pick, and a New York Times Notable Book of the Year. Her fabrication has appeared successful the Paris Review, and she has written for the New York Times, the New Yorker, Los Angeles Times, and elsewhere. A postgraduate of the Iowa Writers’ Workshop, Flournoy has taught astatine the University of Iowa, Princeton University, and UCLA. She lives successful New York.
Born and raised successful Southern California, Brit Bennett earned her MFA successful fabrication astatine the University of Michigan. Her debut caller The Mothers was a New York Times bestseller, and her 2nd caller The Vanishing Half was an instant #1 New York Times bestseller. Her essays person been featured successful the New Yorker, the New York Times magazine, the Paris Review, and Jezebel.
Raven Leilani is the writer of Luster. Leilani is simply a National Book Foundation 5 nether 35 honoree, the recipient of the 2020 Kirkus Prize, VCU Cabell Prize, NBCC John Leonard Prize, Dylan Thomas Prize, Clark Fiction Prize, and The Center for Fiction First Novel Prize. Leilani’s enactment has been published successful the New Yorker, N+1, Granta, the Yale Review, and the Cut, among different publications..
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